The Republic

I read the Jowett translation. A little difficult to follow, but some parts are really a-ha! moments that make you appreciate how all this was thought of this long ago. Whether you agree with what was discussed is, of course, an exercise for the reader in reasoning.

It's interesting reading the bad reviews. I think Plato presents wonderfully. Considering I'm interested in Walter Benjamin and his contemporaries, I found it useful to dive into Plato's dialectic, theory of forms, and most importantly: mimesis. While I do not agree with most conclusions, or perhaps the conclusion drawn by Western Philosophy et large, I do see a very nuanced riddled book that asks important questions intrinsic to most philosophical inquiry. Overall: Easy translation & a fun read.

I was not expecting to genuinely like reading this, but my professor of Western political theory was so excellent at teaching it. I am of the opinion that Plato isn't exclusively talking through Socrates, but simultaneously criticising him, which makes it so much more fun. There's an insane amount of shade being thrown, like it's Big Brother but they're talking about philosophy lmao I love it. Sure, there's a lot of very fascinating ideological and philosophical implications and arguments happening here, but that's less important.

This all plays out like a period version of Gossip Girl (the show, not the books) and I live for it.

Well-written but the characters were all pretty awful. Especially Archer. Still, I love reading descriptions of old New York and Paris.

The taste of the usual was like cinders in his mouth, and there were moments when he felt as if he were being buried alive under his future. Soundtrack for this majestic novel? Old Money by Lana Del Rey. Give this song a listen and tell me you can't feel the power, passion, longing, and heartache echoed in the novel. Where have you been? Where did you go? Those summer nights seem long ago And so is the girl you use to call The queen of New York City But if you send for me, you know I'll come And if you call for me, you know I'll run I'll run to you, I'll run to you I'll run, run, run Now on to the review. Ah, Newland Archer, my love, my heart! As a woman in 2016, it was refreshing to read about a man in love. It feels like modern media usually portrays women as the desperate, clingy, unreasonable and unrealistically passionate ones. The truth is, we're all susceptible to the foolishness and intensity that comes with being in love. In the beginning of the novel, Archer is accepting and eager about his role and future in society - son, lawyer, bachelor, husband, father. It's the familiar and reliable path followed by the best of his male family, friends and colleagues. There's a comfort in knowing that your major life decisions are predestined, planned and orchestrated by others. Archer learns, however, what he must give up for that comfort. Complacent in his engagement with May Welland, he meets her vivacious and worldly cousin Countess Ellen Olenska and discovers how passionate and surprising his life could be. This awakening causes an internal crisis for Archer. By sticking to the status quo and doing what is expected of him, he gives up many of his liberties. But if he forsakes society, he brings dishonor to his reputation and isolates himself and anyone associated with him. It is this struggle that is the driving force in the novel. The Age of Innocence is a brilliant portrait of upperclass New York City in the 1870s. I went in with very high expectations for this novel - this is the second book by Edith Wharton that I've read, Ethan Frome being the first - and she did not disappoint. An intimate and critical exposé of society coupled with Edith Wharton's elegant prose secures this novel as one of the greatest pieces of American literature I've read yet. For more bookish photos, reviews and updates follow me on instagram @concerningnovels.

There is in every one of us, even those who seem to be most moderate, a type of desire that is terrible, wild, and lawless. So, it should be noted that I did not find this book at a bookstore and voluntarily buy it for my leisurely reading... It was on the syllabus for my political theory class. That being said, I enjoyed it far more than I thought I would. Would I recommend it for a vacation? Absolutely not. Unless you like pondering about justice and censorship and the creations of rulers and cities... it's pretty dense material, but most of the fun in reading a book like this being able to discuss, debate and analyze the ideas and arguments Plato puts forth with a group of people. Maybe if I tried to read it by myself, I'd get bored or uninspired. But our class discussions (and syllabus) really kept me engrossed in the subject matter. I guess I'd recommend this book to a philosophy book club, if those exist.

dnf at 50%

While I do not agree with most of Plato's Socrates' philosophy or beliefs on human nature within his fictional city, I did appreciate deep discussions about human nature, freedom, and the importance of happiness. I much preferred investigating the way in which theories were presented and education was discussed to the actual content of the dialogue.

school book to learn about american society

The Age of Innocence was a somehow quick-read for me, even though my edition is 360 pages long. This doesn't mean it is engaging throughout every scene. Really, I could have lived without family trees descriptions and boring scenes that did not add to the main plot. However, I did get the mood of the novel and a great idea of what society was and meant in Old New York during the 1870s. The Age of Innocence is a good novel. Probably not the best novel ever, but still better than many that populate nowaday's bookshops.

the only reason i know what was going on is because of sparknotes analysis but i <3 a good metaphor and plato rlly threw in 824729 so 3 stars

I loved this. Clearly, it was written to be spoken aloud, the narration by Lorna Raver is spectacular and showcases how good the prose and flow are (I couldn’t find an edition with her as the narrator so chose an edition with a picture I liked best instead). My favourite thing about this is the commentary on how old fashioned it is, and some of the characters are, yet how surprising some of the plot is. There is a constant ebb and flow of anticipation and a sense of inevitability that never comes. Another thing I liked was that just enough lines were dedicated to the effect the words in a conversation had on the characters. You always have a strong sense of what the character is thinking or feeling without needing to be let into their heads, often through metaphor or similes. It also has one of the best endings of any book. It’s very elegant and the whole thing is enviable in its mastery.

“The Mother of Death is Monotony” How many times do we yearn for something different? We are tired of living the drudge of the expected, yet we can’t break free from the familiar, from the expected? We conform to societal standards or of what is expected from family and continue to live the same dreary life. Day in and day out. This is a love story written around the theme of expectations of High Society in the early years of New York City. Can the young lovers break free of the expectations, of the monotony, and live a free life? Is monotony truly the mother of all death? Highly recommend this book as you go along this journey with these young lovers. The ending though...

Winner of the 1921 Pulitzer Prize, The Age of Innocence depicts the life of upscale old New York society in 1870s-80s (beginning of the Gilded Age), the struggles between individual desires and strict societal norms, the overflowing hypocrisy behind grandiose appearances and aristocratic manners. It was an obstinate era transitioning from the Victorian era to World War I, soon would become obsolete yet in the moment still suffocatingly inescapable for the individuals. The novel was cleverly done. You won't find any satisfaction from thrilling plots here but rather ambiguity through and through, that leaves lot to your own imagination. I'll check out the film adaptation too, the trailer seems promising.

Winner of the 1921 Pulitzer Prize, The Age of Innocence depicts the life of upscale old New York society in 1870s-80s (beginning of the Gilded Age), the struggles between individual desires and strict societal norms, the overflowing hypocrisy behind grandiose appearances and aristocratic manners. It was an obstinate era transitioning from the Victorian era to World War I, soon would become obsolete yet in the moment still suffocatingly inescapable for the individuals. The novel was cleverly done. You won't find any satisfaction from thrilling plots here but rather ambiguity through and through, that leaves lot to your own imagination. I'll check out the film adaptation too, the trailer seems promising.

In this work, Plato provides some of the strongest arguments for being just and good, but only if you're looking at the world through his glasses. With that being said, there exist certain notions in this book that were fairly remarkable. Aside from Book 8 which is the most remarkable book in this work, I have many notes from various parts of this book which I think are quite mind-boggling. The Republic is divided in 10 books and 621 pages, however it must be noted that this "pages" don't correspond to the current pages of the books that are printed and are not the same is size, however they serve as quite useful bookmarks. :)) P.363: "Still grander are the gifts of heaven [...]; their idea seems to be that an immortality of drunkenness is the highest meed of virtue." :))))))))))))))))))) P. 366. "He knows that men are not "just" of their own free will; unless, peradventure, there be someone whom the divinity within him may have inspired with a hatred of justice, or who has attained knowledge of the truth-but no other man." P. 392. Plato's insistence on the omnibenevolence of Gods is quite interesting and the way he puts it, it sounds like a noble idea in his age. I think the same notion might have served as a predecessor to Epicurus' problem of evil. P. 402: The fact that Plato thinks music serves as a tool for the human soul to differentiate between the just and the unjust is quite interesting. :)) P. 426. "For there are some whom the applause of the multitude has deluded into the belief that they are really states-men, and these are not to be admired." P. 475: "Whereas he who has a taste for every sort of knowledge and who is curious to learn and is never satisfied, may be justly termed a philosopher?" P. 492: A clear demonstration of the effect peer pressure has on people, which I think has been overlooked for the "benefit" of our contemporary society. P. 496: "And seeing the rest of mankind full of wickedness, he is content, if only he can live his own life and be pure from evil or unrighteousness, and depart in peace and good-will, with bright hopes." P. 533: "They only dream about being, but never can they behold the waking reality so long as they lave the hypotheses which they use unexamined. For when a man knows not his own first principle, and when the conclusion and intermediate steps are also constructed out of he knows not what, how can he imagine that such a fabric of convention can ever become a science?" P. 537: I strongly suspect that this part is the origin for the way military service is imposed on adult males in today's world. :)))) As I'm too lazy to enter all of my notes here, I'll end my sayings with this. For anyone who has spent a considerable amount of his life under a tyrannical government, reading this work's Book 8 will be a delight, for it shows how tyrants have worked for the entire history: Appearing as a champion of democracy, making false promises, killing his advocates and finally, getting exposed. Before I forget, one element of Plato's philosophy has always been met with the harshest critiques: his opinion on art and artists. If you read his reasoning, you'll see that it is quite solid. He says that poets and painters have no business telling other people how to go about their lives, because they themselves are neither great at it, nor no sane man's example of a skillful man in life. They're just mere imitators who deceive the delicate parts of the soul using seductive imagery.

The world is changing but New York Society has not. Re-reading this novel decades later from a more mature perspective was both interesting and enjoyable. However frustrating the choices for women were, those who knew the system could play it masterfully, as the young wife does. I read some reviews posted here where readers found the ending “ambiguous” or “open ended,” however I found it anything but. Quite decisive and clear, in fact. And perfect. Edith Wharton was divorced and living in Paris when she wrote this novel. She clearly understood both key women characters quite well, and perhaps knew something of the men of that era?!

I can't believe I forgot to make a note about reading this. When I lived in Philadelphia, I organized an annual Plato reading group in the summer. Last summer we read the Republic. We met weekly and read/discussed one book at a time. It was a curious group (professors, students, randos, etc), though less diverse and weird than the summer before, when we read the Symposium. Most people were new to Plato. I chose Allen's translation, and it is very good. The book has lots of room in the margins and held up decently to a summer of spine bending and heavy reading. Needless to say, the work itself is worthy of a thousand rereads, and I'll be reading it again this spring in seminar. Plato is, by design, much better to read in a group, even in a pair, than it is to read alone. The two things that jumped out at me last summer were Socrates' discussion of mathematics, which are prominent in the text but largely obscure to me, and the tension between nature and education. I can't wait to read it again and try to figure it out. Next summer in Annapolis, in addition to the Summer of Spengler (details tba), I hope to convene a reading group on either the Parmenides or the Sophist.

Good translation, helpful footnotes. I did not read the introductory essay, but I'm sure whatever Kalkavage says in it is interesting.

Sach's translation is fine, but there are too many explanatory notes. I prefer the Allen translation from Yale.

i have never been more vexed by the ending of a book (in a good way!)

Definitely enjoyed the story and the characters...except Archer is a lil' punk.

oh my god, what a bore. dnf at 80%.