I'm still not sure whether I fw it or find it confusing and boring. probably both. love-hate relationship (haha, fitting).

I feel like it was just unnecessarily long and focused on/described unimportant things more than key events that would help us understand the characters' motives.

BUT it had some pretty good (pretentious, but delicious) foreshadowings and discussions, the narration was done well and I enjoyed watching Paul being unbearable and trying to convince the reader to sympathise with him at times.

but yeah I was lost quite a lot towards the middle of the book. didn't get their motives, it should've dug deeper into the dynamic Julian had w his parents.

what the hell…..

i have no words omg im so ??? this book is by far one of the best things i read. i need 5-7 business days to possess this thank you

Absolutely bonkers exploration of a toxic queer relationship. Finishing this made me want to bite something.

don't know why i took so long to read this. love my pathetic twinks.

that toxic yaoi shit will kill you

honestly for the amount of time i spent complaining about this book, or rather the characters within the book, i did have a fun time reading it and may recommend it to a friend who is a lot more tolerant than i. finishing the book despite feeling a teensy bit burdened by it should serve as proof of it's significance.

i ranted to my girlfriend about how insufferable of a character paul was and mid-rant had a moment of clarity in which i realized the complaints i had were mainly having to do with the writing. i liked reading about paul’s inner thoughts - particularly in the beginning. it was really grabbing to read his internal monologue, consistently believing that everyone is either beneath him or will never understand him, then meeting and getting to know julian, who he instantly believed constantly wanted to undermine and control their narrative together. it just became entirely too repetitive and tired. this book could have been heaps shorter if not for the repetition of paul's cycle of inner thoughts.

paul and julian’s fascination with each other was written beautifully (i'd like to emphasize the beginning again here), however minimally romantically, which i thought fit the theme perfectly. i thought it was entertaining to see paul’s obsessive focus turn from julian to his own demise once the reader had reached the book’s ‘after’ portion. paul is an extremely self obsessed and self centered individual throughout, and the way that his change in obsession showed that was very clever to me!

overall, you're not supposed to like either one of these characters and it's very evident in the writing. i saw a review say that their relationship was like a car crash; wanting to look away, but not being able to

This was bad! It was so bad I started taking notes about specific things I hated! I haven't done this since The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo! 1) Much like Evelyn Hugo, it appears that the author struggles with historical imagination. Setting, both in place and time, are problematic here. The action of These Violent Delights allegedly occurs in Pittsburgh, 1973-74. I didn't get any sense for Pittsburgh; in fact, about twenty percent of the way through, I thought, hold up, this is set somewhere in the United States, right?. It's unfortunate that I read These Violent Delights on the heels of Penance which particularly excels in developing the location as a central character in and of itself. As for the historical component of the setting, I suspect the main reason it's set in the 70s is so the author didn't have to think though cell phones and security cameras, which, while a valid decision, fails because the text refuses to sell it convincingly. These characters talk like they've seen Instagram, and it's jarring. For example, while the term "learned helplessness" had entered the academic literature at this time, I find it hard to believe it being in the flippant lexicon of college freshmen. Even weird college freshmen. The psychobabble in general reads as temporally inappropriate. Also, I find Julian's comment to Paul that "[...] [he] checked out of the twentieth century sometime around Frida Kahlo, [he] still paint[s] pictures of things," so perplexing on several levels but I don't wanna write a whole essay here. 2) In the author's note, the author writes that he "was free to write about [...] the provisional whiteness of Jews in America". The author... does not achieve this. Treatment of Jewish identity is surface level at best. Honestly, if this is something you're interested in, just read Compulsion. It may be tedious overall and thus this will probably be the only time I ever recommend it, but I did find the comparing and contrasting of pre and post war Jewish perception (both self and external) to be riveting. Study for Obedience is also a wonderful novel circling around adjacent topics. 3) I found These Violent Delights to be weirdly prudish. It's nowhere near as horny or as gross (or, ideally, grossly horny) as I was expecting it to be. I must once again ask authors collectively to stop wimping out. There is a ton of hand holding though. And so much overwrought emotional gratuitousness. The latter is a trait I associate with fanfic. 4) The book takes itself painfully seriously both in generally and as a contribution to Literature. It has a land acknowledgement. So anyway I feel like I read a really bad true crime fanfic with a land acknowledgement and am giggling like a maniac about the absurdness of it all.

this book just ruined my life i'm so deadly serious right now.

I am speechless, I don’t think I could find the words to explain the way Julian and Paul burrowed under my skin. Micah's incredibly poignant prose, his phenomenal grasp of identity and loneliness give way to a heartbreaking resolution. Even knowing that would be the case, it takes you by surprise, your heart skips a beat. Suddenly you realize you've been holding your breath. It takes effort to let air back in. I believe this book taught me more about myself than I ever before had the courage to confront. I am shattered, feverish with longing, dizzy with despair. Easily my favorite book I’ve read past my teenage years. If it had been written then, I think, it would have fractured me completely. I feel unmoored. I need to lie down now Edit: On a reread, this book is even better. I do not say it lightly: a book that holds its weight on a reread is rare and precious, you develop a unique relationship with it. It makes me feel untethered. It makes me feel seen, and not in ways that I'd ever wanted to have acknowledged. What a brilliant novel, every detail carefully considered, every single word of it both a knife and a cautery pen. The wound is clean, precise, and ruthless. What a thrill to get to experience it again, and see it has not lost any of its sting.

I have spent the past 24 hours trying to pull together my thoughts on this beyond that it is the first book to have such a strong hold on me in a long while. There was "Lightbringer" last year but that was only about half of the book (the half that had Cassius in it). I perhaps love this the way I loved "The Magic Toyshop" in 2023 and "A Dowry of Blood" in 2022. It is the kind of book that, frankly, makes me slightly physically unwell - that is to say, the best kind of book. And the more I think about it (which I have been doing constantly), the more I love it.

Let me start by saying that this is the kind of book a lot of people want - and have tried - to write. It is a tragic and violent love story with an intensity that only youth can bring. Few have managed to to capture this feeling, this concept so well. (And while I am a believer that you do not need to write only what you know, topics that feel this personal to the author - as per Nemerever's own author's note - make for much more convincing and impactful writing.)

It is clear that Julian and Paul are extremely flawed people and their arrogance (which, in real life, rarely turns into violence) of young extremely smart people who have been ostracised by their peers rings true to reality. For the novel to succeed, their dynamic, too, needs to be just as complex. The focus of "These Violent Delights, theirs is a relationship full of cruelty, full of violence - Nemerever understands that this is the kind of honesty that you can only achieve with someone who truly understands you.

What is more fascinating is that as many declarations as Julian and Paul make to each other and the lyrical prose of the narration, "These Violent Delights" depicts their relationship even more strongly through actions. In spite of the third person narration, the reader experiences the novel primarily through Paul's P.O.V. - and he is so, so unreliable but in a way one might not notice until it is too late.

There was a point where I considered that part of my criticism would be that the characters could have been much more layered and fleshed out. However, by the end I came to realise that it only appeared so - as Paul was never able to truly see himself, truly identify and name his emotions, and as he only ever saw Julian as the idea of him he stubbornly held onto, for the reader, too, it was difficult to truly grasp these characters. That is, until one looks at their actions over the words.

It takes, in my opinion, an extremely skillful author to achieve this and Nemerever does it beautifully. He seems to understand a truth about fiction not many grasp - when you are writing about toxic love and cruel romances, when you are writing about flawed people loving flawed people, you need to make the reader as much of an accomplice as each of the characters. I do not mean make the reader sympathise with the characters; I mean, the reader should fall just as much in love as the people on the page.

As such, "These Violent Delights" is a book about obsession that invites obsession. It is also a book about two clever people that is, itself clever and it uses to its full advantage in order to throw the heaviest punches. Nemerever himself is a clever author as the novel is well plotted out; with his excellent command of atmosphere, it builds up beautifully to the last 15% of which nearly made me feel physically sick with dread and anxiety. Until the final letter by Julian which was absolutely heart-wrenching - a reference that could have been just a throaway conversation between the two, one of Julian's quirks - instead woven beatifully into the meaning of the novel and a testament to how well Julian knows Paul (for what is to come) and how well Paul knows Julian (for who else would remember this?)

Somewhat ironically, if I had one criticism, it would be that sometimes the prose tends to lose itself in its prettiness. It is sometimes disorientating. But as the novel progresses, it becomes sharper and much more focused. Regardless, it is breath-takingly impacful throughout the whole novel - the first time Julian invites Paul's violence knocked the breath out of me, the speed with which it came - and I am willing to forgive its smaller transgressions as I, myself, might have not been very coherent in this review.

But that is OK. I am sure that my thoughts, too, will sharpen with time as I know I will think about this novel over and over again.

this is the most intense exploration of toxic and obsessive queer relationships to ever exist

great way to start the new year

I read this in one sitting, just so you know. There is something obviously ambitious in the process of writing this. It tried to achieve /that/, and it did, in fact, did at some parts, but there are also holes that are just so obviously agape that you would find it genuinely confusing most of the times. The writing is clever though, still. The first half of the book, through Paul's eyes, everything is very Julian-centric, until the After happened and it became a serious Me-centric (by Paul) point of view, and it was really obvious through the writing. The control twist didn't surprise me because it should be obvious, but honestly Julian's insanely humane trait is a bit too surprising for me to believe, LoL. I mean, I know we follow this story through a genuinely 100% chronic unreliable narrator but. That was still a little disorienting. There are unanswered things that probably left like that so to not differ the point, which is a clever choice. There is also all the going around pull and push happened between them that makes me genuinely feel both upset, angry, sad, and frustrated in a way that's extraordinarily real. And you would find out from the fact that I read it in (hear me out) ONE SITTING, this book is interesting from the get-go. Literally. This book is clever, maybe that's what i m trying to say. And no, I don't just mean it because of the errie similarity they have in the first half of the book with Kunikidazai (LMAO) This book is exhausting though. GENUINELY headache inducer. There is something fascinating in jumping into a book randomly without doing any research or looking through beforehand. Like blindly jumping into this? Insane thrill. The ending though?????? 4/5

i don’t really have a huge review. i think this just became one of my favorite books, its going on the shelf with the secret history and the goldfinch. it also ruined my entire life and left me feeling completely shattered.

3 stars only because Julian was part of this book. #CANCELPAUL #LOVEJULIAN #WELOVEJULIAN #JUSTICEFORJULIAN

I love darkly fucked up protagonists, and I love LGBT+ protagonists, so naturally I would love this novel for its darkly fucked up LGBT+ protagonists. This book immediately reminded me of Heavenly Creatures and the Hannibal television series, but in a dark academia setting. When Paul and Julian meet as university freshmen in early 1970s Pittsburgh, they are immediately drawn to one another. A talented artist, Paul is sensitive and agonizingly insecure, incomprehensible to his working-class family, and desolate with grief over his father’s recent death. Paul sees the wealthy, effortlessly charming Julian as his sole intellectual equal, an ally against the conventional world he finds so suffocating. He idolizes his friend for his magnetic confidence. But as charismatic as he can choose to be, Julian is also volatile and capriciously cruel. And admiration isn’t the same as trust. As their friendship spirals into an all-consuming intimacy, Paul is desperate to protect their precarious bond, even as it becomes clear that pressures from the outside world are nothing compared with the brutality they are capable of inflicting on one another. Separation is out of the question. But as their orbit compresses and their grip on one another tightens, they are drawn to an act of irrevocable violence that will force the young men to confront a shattering truth at the core of their relationship. I loved delving into the twisted dynamic between these two boys, starting as a friendship and watching it blossom into a dark romance. I loved watching the characters navigate their neurodivergence and their own psychopathy through the lenses of one another. I loved the depiction of a blossoming male friendship and the revelation that these two boys see each other’s inner darkness and realize they are the only ones who could ever possibly understand each other. I love that these characters never felt like caricatures of psychopaths, which is something that plagues books exploring psychopathy storylines. I love how human and real these characters felt. I loved watching Julian and Paul navigate social situations with “normal” people and with each other. I love how they felt like opposites at the end of a chess board during all of their social interactions. Their psychological mind games reminded me of L and Kira in Death Note, only much more intimate. I do feel like this book could have been trimmed in length to its own benefit, but I never felt like the story dragged despite certain slow moments. A lot of the quiet moments made these characters feel more human and real. While I initially wanted more from this other than the deep examination of the dark relationship between these two boys, I ended up loving this story for what it was and how their dynamic was the sole focus. I kept expecting this book to make grand plot twists around every corner but instead we get the introspectively dark examination into these two boys and their doomed relationship. I was a bit taken aback by the ending but ultimately I was thankful that it ended the way that it did. I was initially confused at the ending and thought that the ultimate outcome meant something different, but after reading up on the ending online and looking back, I love how everything wraps up and ultimately gives the book a more effective theme and message. This book had a lot to say about complicated relationships and dark loves, and I love how cathartic it was for me in the end concerning certain relationships in my past, which only made this book that much more effective for me. I highly recommend this book for fans of stories about dark relationships and intense, obsessive introspective friendships.

A new favorite because I love books that are purposefully slow so that you get to feel more connected with the characters. Dark and gave me anxiety lowkey but another reason why I loved it so much. I felt like i was inside Paul's brain

As a lover of dark academia books, this book gave me everything I wanted: obsession, murder, romance, an unreliable narrator. The romance between Paul and Julian was so captivating, and as soon as I understood what an unreliable narrator Paul was, I started to see Julian in a different light. The ending was open and I was a bit confused to be honest, but still one of the best dark academia books I had the pleasure to read.

i guess this would actually be a 3.75, there are some things that bothered me while reading, and i think they are related to the writing style and not the story itself (which i loved); still there’s something that i can’t quite put my finger on yet that didn’t make me enjoy this to the fullest

i was so invested in they way they love each other like its so toxic and obsessive but so relatable even tho i did not want to be able to relate sometimes. pauls (btw pathetic insecure pretentious little gay protagonist thats so richard papen of him) inner monologue had me thinking ME ME ME way too many times it made me almost feel uncomfortable. there is something so all consuming about queer love and the ways in which this book was able to capture it wooooow. maybe it dragged a bit in the middle but idc bc im a sucker for beautiful prose and THAT ENDINGGG wow gagged me a little bit

This book is great and written SO DAMN WELL, but there were a few confusing parts—especially the ending. And there’s the fact that it made me physically ill for inexplicable reasons (and that’s not an exaggeration).

Even though I find myself enjoying how this book was written, I can't lie when I said that it did confuse me at some parts. The writing itself was beautiful, so many quotes-worthy sentences that I find myself highlighting and how the complex emotional relationship between Julian and Paul was described. However, it kinda was confusing at some parts because some parts felt like it was left unsaid, like it wasn't finished and I had to grasp or connect it to the next scene and fit the puzzles myself, I think? But, other than that, this was a really good queer book. It actually does tackle The Secret History vibe and somehow reminded me of the movie Heathers.

Writing aside, Julian and Paul relationship is so toxic that it made me got goosebumps sometimes. Their whole relationship was so toxic and manipulative that I find myself even though I feel like Julian has the upper hand, Paul is somehow the one with a fucked-up head. Man is insane.

This book will definitely sit in my mind for quite some time... It's hauntingly, terrifyingly beautiful.

3.75/5 stars I think this is everything I’ve ever wanted in a book. Twisted, toxic, seriously fucked up. Paul and Julian are the definition of a co-dependant, toxic relationship. Their relationship is not romanticised at all, and that is what I loved so much about this book. You’re not supposed to root for them or think they are good people. It’s like watching a car crash about to happen, you know it’s gonna end badly but you can’t stop looking. The only bad point I can think of is that I feel the book was longer than it needed to be. I felt sort of bored towards the later half, even though I was still intrigued by everything happening. The author writes sentences in a way that draws scenes out, and I think I would’ve preferred it more condensed.